Manda Scott traces the self as a set of relations: to body, to earth, to the wider web of life. The conversation moves through the neurophysiology of story, Nora Bateson’s wide-boundary thinking, Donella Meadows’s hierarchy of leverage points, and the two tasks Manda names as the core of shamanic work: give thanks, ask for help. Autoimmunity emerges here as a liminal state, a threshold where the body opens toward a different relationship to the entire living world. She trained as a veterinary surgeon in Glasgow, specialized in equine neonatal intensive care, and taught at the universities of Cambridge and Dublin. Forty years of shamanic practice, study with indigenous teachers in the UK and US, training in acupuncture and homeopathy, and an MA in Regenerative Economics from Schumacher College inform a body of work that moves across disciplines without asking permission.
Born in Scotland at 318ppm CO2, Manda Scott trained as a veterinary surgeon, but is now an award-winning novelist, host of the Accidental Gods podcast and co-creator of the Thrutopia Masterclass. Best known for the Boudica: Dreaming series, her latest novel, Any Human Power, is a mytho-political Thrutopian thriller that explores the potential for a future we'd be proud to leave as our legacy. She believes that the way forward now is for everyone to craft open-hearted connections with all parts of ourselves, each other and the Web of Life. She lives with her partner, Faith, in the Shropshire Marches.
Show timings
00:00 Welcome and Introductions
00:10 A Polymath Path
01:10 Vet Medicine Meets Spirit
04:47 Energy Healing Foundations
06:48 Homeopathy and Belief
08:35 Self Knowledge and Balance
12:12 Autoimmunity as Story
13:14 Medical Dogma and Heresy
15:36 Redefining Reality
18:02 Breaking Paradigm Boundaries
21:31 Where Self Begins
26:28 Stories Shape Symptoms
29:25 Separation and Reconnection
32:20 Wholeness in the Web
33:37 Beyond Inner Warfare
35:31 Earth as Mirror
36:12 Metaphors That Heal
39:45 Creative Conflict Edges
41:45 Liminality and Emergence
44:05 Autoimmunity as Portal
45:45 Give Thanks and Ask For Help
46:57 Prayer for Guidance
49:24 Lessons from the Hill
52:19 Gratitude in the Body
54:08 Closing Reflections
References Mentioned
Nora Bateson — wide-boundary and narrow-boundary thinking; founder of the International Bateson Institute; author of Small Arcs of Larger Circles (2016) and Combining (2023). Her concept of “warm data” insists that relational information — the interdependencies between contexts — is what narrow-boundary analysis systematically excludes. https://norabateson.wordpress.com/about/
Donella Meadows — “Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System” (1997, Whole Earth), expanded in Thinking in Systems: A Primer (2008). The 12 leverage points ascend from parameters and buffers through rules and goals to paradigms, with the highest leverage being the capacity to transcend all paradigms. donellameadows.org
Vanessa Andreotti — Brazil-born decolonial scholar, author of Hospicing Modernity (2021). Her work on the belief in separability as the core wounding of Western modernity draws on teachings from an indigenous grandfather. decolonialfutures.net
Richard C. Schwartz — founder of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. The “internal civil war” framing appears throughout his work on parts and the Self. ifs-institute.com
Francis Weller — psychotherapist and author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief (2015). His distinction between trauma culture and initiation culture, and the image of the newborn expecting forty adoring gazes, draws on decades of soul-centered psychotherapy. francisweller.net
Thomas Hübl — contemplative teacher and author of Healing Collective Trauma (2020). His reframing of trauma as “a moment frozen in time” and the thawing process that restores flow and relationality. thomashuebl.com
N.K. Jemisin — The Broken Earth trilogy (The Fifth Season, The Obelisk Gate, The Stone Sky, 2015–2017). Three consecutive Hugo Awards. A far-future Earth where a sentient planet retaliates against civilisational extraction, and orogenes — people who can manipulate geological forces — are feared, enslaved, and used as living tools. nkjemisin.com
Beverly Lanzetta — interfaith theologian and contemplative, author of Path of the Heart: A Spiritual Guide to Divine Union (1985, expanded 2014). The prayer Laure quotes is from this text. Described as “a rare combination of mature spiritual wisdom and poetic quality that transcends confessional lines.” beverlylanzetta.net
Classical Frameworks Referenced (by Laure)
Svasta (Sanskrit: स्वस्थ) — the Ayurvedic definition of health: being established in oneself. Not the absence of disease but the presence of self-knowledge.
Rakta Pitta (Sanskrit: रक्त पित्त) — a condition in which the metabolic fire (pitta) vitiates the blood (rakta), causing it to become too hot, too toxic, and to leak from its channels. The Ayurvedic frame for what allopathic medicine calls immune thrombocytopenia.
Qi deficiency with heat in the blood — the Chinese medicine frame for ITP-pattern bleeding. A very different story than “the body attacking its own cells.”
Texts by Manda
Accidental Gods — podcast exploring how humanity navigates the meta-crisis toward a regenerative future. 200+ episodes. accidentalgods.life
Any Human Power (2024) — a Thrutopian mytho-political thriller, her most recent novel. mandascott.co.uk
Boudica: Dreaming series — four historical novels (Dreaming the Eagle, Dreaming the Bull, Dreaming the Hound, Dreaming the Serpent Spear, 2003–2006) exploring pre-Roman Britain through a shamanic lens.
Dreaming Awake — contemporary shamanic practitioner training, co-run with senior apprentice Louise Mayor. dreamingawake.co.uk
Thrutopia Masterclass — teaching writers to craft narratives that map pathways beyond dystopia and utopia into viable futures. thrutopia.life
The host:
Laure Marin is an Ayurvedic consultant, bodywork practitioner, and writer based in Tiohtià:ke/Montréal. I have lived with autoimmunity for over twenty-five years. mxmarin.ca
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Theme music: « Tremblement » de Michaël Boudreau, from the album Terre.
Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/michaelboudreau
